Deane Dray — Analyst, RBC
Thank you. Good morning, everyone.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Hi, Deane.
Deane Dray — Analyst, RBC
Hey, can we start with the, and I guess I want to call it a momentous decision to give quarterly sales guidance. It begs the question to why now? Obviously, you've got better visibility. You got backlog up 28%. The six-week orders look strong. Expansion markets are living up to their name. Just kind of take us through your decision to give this guidance metric, and should we expect this on a go-forward basis? Thank you.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah, it's a good question, and I think you really answered the question with your commentary. We do have pretty good visibility, particularly over a 13-week time period. We thought it would be helpful to the analysts like you that follow the company to get our perspective on how these quarters are actually playing out. Because, for example, if you look at this year, we haven't changed our revenue outlook for the full year, and there's some volatility around the first half versus second half that if we had done a different job, we might have given you some more information about how we saw those two halves playing out and been a little bit more insightful in terms of the information that we're providing to the analysts that actually have to put reports out and give numbers and represent the company that way.
I think that we feel comfortable. I think that, as you said, backlogs are strong. I think this is a change that we're committing to make going forward. It's not just a one quarter thing that we're going to do, and I think it's the right approach for the company at this time.
Deane Dray — Analyst, RBC
Great. Well, we welcome that, so thank you. I think the last time I was surprised at this level was when you all had to make a second price increase mid-year, which just not something you typically did. That begs the question, can you talk about pricing in the quarter, where you are on price cost, and just kind of the outlook there? Thank you.
Sanjiv Gupta — CFO and Treasurer, Graco
Yeah. Deane, the price cost stays positive. I think our plan here is, given that our price cost equation is positive, we are going to stick to our historic price cadence, which is basically we'll be introducing the price increases at the beginning of the year. That's the plan, and that's what we're going to stick to. We have realized pricing this year roughly 1.5% to 2%, consistent with how we have been doing historically.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah, I think we're in good shape, Deane. Of course, we always have the flexibility if we need to do something, we can, but right now things look pretty good.
Deane Dray — Analyst, RBC
All good to hear. Congrats. Thanks.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Thanks.
Mike Halloran — Analyst, Baird
Hi, morning everyone.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Hi, Mike.
Mike Halloran — Analyst, Baird
Hey. Like Deane, appreciate the 3Q help. What I'm looking for more holistically and it's just translating how you're talking about the bookings in the front half of the year, last six weeks, however you want to put it, in the back half of the year, and just how that relationship in your mind works out. Obviously, back half of the year implies something above 5%, depending on what your definition of low single digit is from an organic growth perspective. Orders front half of the year were, particularly in 2Q, were kind of there in full year. What's the correlation, the lag? How much revenue do you think is getting pushed to the back half of the year? How much of this is just sequential momentum that you expect to continue in the back of half the year?
Just any help you can give on that relationship and why the visibility is higher and all those factors.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah, I'll start. I'll let these guys chime in. I may not cover everything. If I were to play back Q1, I think we had a decent Q1. We just built backlog. We weren't able to ship it out. We had, I think, an organic decline of about 6%. If we had gotten the product out and the backlog hadn't grown, it would've been a much different story. In Q2, we built even more backlog. We were able to push through enough orders to generate closer to a flattish organic growth number. We benefited obviously from acquisitions as well. I think year to date, our backlogs are up about $57 million from the beginning of the year. That gives us a lot of momentum heading into the back half.
We had quite a bit of headwind in the powder coatings business, the Gema business in the first half. We knew that. They had a great first half last year. We think that their comps are going to be easier in the back half. They've also gotten nice benefit from the Color Service acquisition, which is actually performing ahead of our plan and our schedule. That's a factor that goes into the equation because that'll become organic here in the third quarter for us. I would say probably the biggest positive in my mind that we've seen in the more recent numbers is the momentum that we're seeing on the contractor side of the business.
While we did expect that we would see some positivity there, just the broad-based nature of it, the fact that it's happening in North America, which is our biggest market, the infrastructure spending that they're getting involved with from the protective coatings and foam side of the business are really a nice Things that have happened since the end of the first quarter. I think that you combine that with the backlogs, the Gema numbers, the big growth that we're seeing in semiconductor with our White Knight business, that really gives us confidence that we are going to be able to hit the full year revenue guide that we put out at the beginning of January. It's just that we'll definitely be more back-half loaded.
I don't know if I answered your question enough specifically, but I welcome the group here to chime in if there's anything else that you guys want to add. They're shaking their heads.
Mike Halloran — Analyst, Baird
Okay. No, all good. That helps. Maybe the follow-up is something you alluded to there, which is, I think people historically think about Graco more as a traditional res, new lesser stake non-res exposed company. What you were referencing is exposure to broader build-out that's happening through the ecosystem, the large CapEx dollars out there. You can see that in the expansionary numbers, the semiconductor growth. Maybe talk to how aggressively you think that you're participating or what kind of impact it can have on the other two segments, all else equal. In other words, as this contagion kind of rolls through spend through the economy, are we just underappreciating how much Graco can participate in that?
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah, I don't know. I think that there's different ways that we can participate. Obviously, semiconductor is probably the cleanest area where we can talk about it because we have a specific business that's dedicated there, and of course, they're benefiting from this build-out that's happening. They're more involved with the tool manufacturing of the equipment that's used to manufacture the chips. There's definitely some uptick there that you're seeing in our business. When it comes to the data centers themselves, they're sort of the outside of the building stuff, which is anything to do with putting up the building itself, putting roofs on the building, even parking lots and stuff like that. We get involved with all those activities. Our Gema powder business gets involved in some of the applications with respect to the transfer equipment that's put in.
They have powder coating systems that coat the cabinets that go in to power these things, and they've seen an uptick in their business there. In our industrial business, we have equipment that applies these thermal interface materials, which are really kind of a fancy way of saying materials that they kind of dissipate the heat that's involved in a lot of the activities in a data center. Our channel partners, our distributors are really starting to see some activity around there where we're taking Graco applications and really using our thermal interface dispense materials in areas like the cabinets that are put into data centers of some of the chips that are being produced. Traditionally, we've kind of participated in them, like cell phones and personal items, now starting to broad out a little bit into commercial applications.
We touch it in a lot of ways, and I think net, it's a positive compared to what we may have seen a year or two ago.
Mike Halloran — Analyst, Baird
Great. Thanks, Mark. Appreciate it.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yep.
Bryan Blair — Analyst, Oppenheimer
Thank you. Morning, everyone.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Hey, Bryan.
Bryan Blair — Analyst, Oppenheimer
Circling back to the momentous decision to provide the quarterly guide, quarterly sales guide. I agree with that characterization. I was hoping you could provide a little more detail by segment what your team is contemplating for the third quarter, and then obviously we can back into what's then implied for Q4 as well.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah, I think for now we're just given the overall number, and it includes M&A in that number. We haven't really broken it out by segment. Of course, we have our own thoughts around that. I think that at this point, I don't know that we're prepared to give segment information. I'll throw it over to Sanjiv, and I think that being a new CFO, this was something that he thought was important that we do. Part of this too, Bryan, is when you put a number out there, it creates a little bit of accountability for our team. You can believe that we're having those discussions, and we're building that muscle as well. I'll let Sanjiv just comment on his thoughts.
Sanjiv Gupta — CFO and Treasurer, Graco
No, I think, Mark, you captured it. I would say this is our first step. We are starting off with a consolidated number. We'll have to really make sure that internally we have the processes and checks and balances in terms of how we develop that number. We do have an internal forecast, but I think we are not ready to really go at that level of detail yet. Again, it's a start. Give us some time, and then we'll come back to you.
Bryan Blair — Analyst, Oppenheimer
Okay, understood. It's our job to ask for more.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Of course.
Bryan Blair — Analyst, Oppenheimer
Which is what it is. All right. Valco Melton sounds like they're a very high fit acquisition for your team too, so kudos there. You provided the starting EBITDA margin of around 20%. I guess to level set as we think about the prospective levers to the deal model, what's run rate gross margin? Then with regard to the 27 facility footprints, what's the breakout between manufacturing, sales, and service locations?
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah. The gross margins of that business are 50% or more, they're good. I think we also flagged that more than half of the business is parts and accessories, which is really good. When you start with a high-quality business with good gross margins like that, it does give you some opportunities to drive some value on the operating side. A lot of that'll come with revenue growth, but also, we and the Valco team, when we get together with them, have really identified some areas that we think we can help them in to be more efficient, more productive, and hopefully drive some of those costs out as their revenue grows. For sure, job one for us is to maintain the revenue that they have and have it continue to grow at the rates that it has. It's been growing very nicely.
We certainly didn't build that into the deal model. Our expectation is that this is a nice market. They're doing well. They are one of the major players here. This is a business that I personally have wanted in the Graco portfolio for quite some time. You might recall that in 2013, we launched a product called InvisiPac, where we went into this space. We built a nice business there, we think that they can help us sell more InvisiPac, I think we can help them as well sell some of the Graco equipment into some of the customers they have that are focused into the corrugated area. It is a really nice hand-in-glove acquisition that we're excited about. Bryan, remind me of the second part of your question. I don't know if we have detail, but if we do, I'll give it to you.
Bryan Blair — Analyst, Oppenheimer
I was just curious in terms of the 27 facility footprints, how that breaks down between manufacturing sales and service locations.
Chris Knutson — VP, Controller, and Chief Accounting Officer, Graco
Bryan, this is Chris. I'm going off the top of my head here, but I think they have about five manufacturing locations, and the rest are going to be sales and service offices.
Bryan Blair — Analyst, Oppenheimer
Okay, excellent. Appreciate the detail.
Matt Summerville — Analyst, D.A. Davidson
Thanks. Maybe just sticking with the acquisition, that 9% CAGR referenced in the deck, is that all organic, or is there M&A in there? If there is M&A, what would the organic number look like? Does Valco tend to capture the same priced goodness that you guys capture on an annual basis, or is there some commercial opportunity? I have a follow-up.
Chris Knutson — VP, Controller, and Chief Accounting Officer, Graco
I'll start with that one, Matt. This is Chris. When you're looking at the revenue CAGR, they have been acquisitive, but their acquisitions are much smaller. That is an organic number, the 9%.
Matt Summerville — Analyst, D.A. Davidson
Got it. The rest of the question on sort of their ability to capture price, do you underwrite that kind of 9% CAGR going forward?
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
I think that they have, I'll call it, normal pricing practices. Obviously, they compete against some large other companies in that space. You probably know who they are. They keep each other honest. It's a good, I would call it, a rational pricing environment. I think Valco has done a good job of positioning themselves into some applications where they feel like they can add a lot of value, like in particular, the corrugated packaging market. We're not going into this expecting that we're going to do anything dramatically different from a pricing standpoint than what they have done historically. I think a lot of their growth has been mostly products and market demand. Their market position, I think, has improved over that five-year time period, we really don't want to do anything to disrupt that momentum that they've got.
Matt Summerville — Analyst, D.A. Davidson
Thank you. As a follow-up, just thinking about, I'm looking at the bookings, slide 11. In any period you look at, expansion markets bookings are excellent. You mentioned some timing on powder systems in industrial, which we know can add, and has in the past, some volatility quarter to quarter. As we think about that oncoming expansion markets demand, should we be thinking about a sustained period that this business is growing double digits, number one? Number two, on industrial, do those powder projects favor Q3 or Q4 in terms of timing? Thank you.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah, I think that my view of semiconductor is a pretty lumpy end market. You get really hot periods. They tend to run three, five-year time periods, then it can cool off. All signs at this point are this is pretty sustainable, it's going to run for a while. I wouldn't tell you that you should run out those growth rates in perpetuity, obviously, but I do feel pretty confident that customers are interested in our products. They're talking to us all the time. They're placing orders. In the near term, I think that there's really good momentum, and it should last for sure through the end of this year and I would guess into next year as well beyond that.
If you look at the macro data with all the buildup that's happening around AI and other things, I think you can get yourself comfortable that this is going to be a multi-year favorable trend for our business as we continue to evolve and pursue that opportunity.
Chris Knutson — VP, Controller, and Chief Accounting Officer, Graco
I think the final part of your question was the timing of the powder.
Matt Summerville — Analyst, D.A. Davidson
Industrial.
Chris Knutson — VP, Controller, and Chief Accounting Officer, Graco
We've historically seen
Matt Summerville — Analyst, D.A. Davidson
Yep
Chris Knutson — VP, Controller, and Chief Accounting Officer, Graco
A strong fourth quarter in powder. We expect to see that again this year. Last year, their third quarter was one of their slowest, and we've had some slowness to start this year with the timing of the installation and completion of projects. We expect that to pick up in both third and fourth quarter this year.
Matt Summerville — Analyst, D.A. Davidson
Got it. Thank you, guys.
Mitch Moran — Analyst, KeyBanc Capital Markets
Hey, everyone. Good morning. This is Mitch Moran for Jeff.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Good day.
Mitch Moran — Analyst, KeyBanc Capital Markets
My first question, you really stepped into buybacks this quarter and have been doing more M&A recently. I was just wondering if that was purely opportunistic or if moving forward, we should expect a more constructive approach to deploying cash flow and cash on the balance sheet.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
I'll let Sanjiv handle the buyback question.
Sanjiv Gupta — CFO and Treasurer, Graco
I think from a capital allocation framework standpoint, I think our strategy or approach hasn't changed. It'll be consistent, it'll be disciplined, it'll be balanced. That's what we have been doing. I think as I've stated before, we'll be investing in growth first organically, then pursuing the strategic M&A, which we have outlined to you guys as long as they meet our financial and strategic threshold. Then we'll return cash through dividends and share buybacks to the shareholders. I think in terms of dividend, we have a very consistent history, our approach. We have been returning cash to the shareholders. In terms of share buyback, it has to be opportunistic, and that's the philosophy we'll continue to pursue. It'll basically based on the financial returns, whether it's the right play, and essentially the choice between what other uses of cash we have.
I think the bottom line is it's the same capital allocation framework which we have deployed, and we'll continue to look at share buyback opportunities opportunistically.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah. I would just add that, let's be candid here. We were at a $95 stock price not that long ago. Our outlook's the same, cash conversion's great, business is performing well. I think we do view the current environment as a buying opportunity for Graco. I think you've seen that here in our actions recently. I think the other part of your question was M&A. Again, our long-term view is that we'd like, let's call it, a third of our revenue growth through a cycle to come from acquired businesses. I think that the pipelines are good. M&A is opportunistic. We obviously have activities going on there all the time. Really depends upon whether it's a good strategic fit, timing of the seller, are we interested at the price that they want to sell at, those kinds of things.
I think the point is, if you were to look out over the next five years, we do feel pretty confident that we're gonna be able to get that kind of contribution from M&A, with our teams as focused on it as they are. I think we've got a really good story to tell in terms of the companies that we've acquired and how they're contributing to Graco overall today. We want to do more of that.
Mitch Moran — Analyst, KeyBanc Capital Markets
Great. That's very helpful. My second question is just on Contractor. You mentioned, I think it was the first time in two years that pro paint and home center channels grew in the same quarter, and you talked about some of the new product introductions and some of the non-residential applications. Could you just speak to the confidence that the improvements you've seen in this last quarter and in the bookings are kind of sustainable through the year? Thanks.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
I guess my impression, Mitch, would be that, I'm hopeful that we've kind of seen the worst of the market, the macro market conditions that that business has had to face over the last four or five years. We're starting to see in our numbers, orders, kind of a broad-based pickup versus what we experienced a year ago. It's still pretty early, I don't want to get irrationally exuberant, I do feel better about where that business is positioned today than I have for the last few years. Of course, the products that they're launching, the ones that we mentioned, some of the activities that we have going on within the business unit to really drive brand preference and create more demand from our customers, has translated into some growth that we're excited about.
We're kind of hopeful here that we've seen the worst of it, and we can grow off of the base that we have. I will say that the Corob acquisition that we did about 18 months ago, again, like the other part of Contractor, we've seen nice order pickup there as well in the last six weeks. That's nice profitable business that we expect to get in the back half that we didn't really see a whole lot of in the front half. Feel pretty good about Contractor. I think we're in good shape, and we'll see what happens.
Walter Liptak — Analyst, Seaport Research
Hi. Thanks. Good morning.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Good morning, Walter.
Walter Liptak — Analyst, Seaport Research
I'll do a follow-on. Hi. I'll do a follow-on first on Contractor. Kind of going to this idea of the data center build-out for non-res construction, are there new products that go into that market, or are there specific products that you think are being sold for use in data center construction that kind of supports the view that your business is getting a lift from that build-out?
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
I think it's the same products. I think it's just capitalizing on these opportunities that are out there today that weren't there a year ago. It's paint, it's protective coatings in some of the areas in the facilities. It's the roofing applications that we get involved with. It's pavement, it's the flooring within the data centers. All of those construction-type activities that you would expect us to be involved with, we are seeing decent activity there, and the team is doing a good job of capitalizing on it.
Walter Liptak — Analyst, Seaport Research
Okay, great. Has there been a way for you guys to quantify the benefit from it, or is there too much channel in the way to see a direct data center related sales channel?
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah. It's not a number I'd be comfortable sharing with you, but our teams have a perspective on it, and we ask for data about actual buildings and construction that they're seeing, and we've got some of that information. Again, it's not hundreds of millions of dollars, but it's enough of an uptick for that business where we thought it was worth mentioning. We do see that activity continuing here, in the near term and probably into the next few years, as long as data centers continue to be built out.
Walter Liptak — Analyst, Seaport Research
Okay, great. We're all kind of watching for industrial and if we continue to see improvement in sort of the general industrial market, some of the core things like automotive for you guys, or just larger projects going through your rep channel. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the sort of those general industrial markets and if some of the recent order growth is a result of better projects getting released. Maybe, are we on easier comps now? Do you think you're gaining from selling strategies, or are we seeing market growth?
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yeah, I'll maybe take the second part first. For sure we have easier comps in the powder business in the back half of the year. Really, if you looked at the legacy Graco industrial business in the first half of the year, we did have growth in that part of our business, kind of in line with our low single-digit organic guide that we gave for the full year. Any of the pressure that you've seen on the organic side here in the first half has really been tied to the powder business, and those comps are going to be easier. I'd characterize the growth as pretty broad-based. I think we're seeing the PMIs start to turn positive. We're seeing investments being made in machinery manufacturing, general industrial applications. Pretty healthy MRO channels as well. That activity has tweaked up a little bit for us.
Of course, we've been focusing on creating the right digital assets here at Graco to be able to interact with those larger MRO partners. I think that that's starting to bear some fruit as well for us. I would kind of say broad-based across the board. Nothing is really spiking it. Tempo feels pretty good here as we're exiting Q2, and we feel, again, fairly confident in that the back half of the year is going to be better than what we saw in the front half of the year.
Walter Liptak — Analyst, Seaport Research
Okay, great. Thank you.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Yep.
Mark Sheahan — President and CEO, Graco
Okay. I thank you all for participating in the call today. I look forward to seeing some of you on the road here in the next few months, and hope you have a great rest of the day. Thanks again.